A conversation, part 3

Definitely mistakes have been made here, but the mistake is not that we pulled out too late. I'll tell you what the mistake was and you can't disagree with me. Okay - first off I want to say, that I was never in support of a war that was not sanctioned by the UN.
I made up my mind and declared that openly before the war was started so that I would always be able to say that I did not support the opening of this war. But that's not the mistake. Once our troops fired the first shot, I forced myself to be 100% for the war because nay saying a war that we're already in does an incalculable disservice to the troops and is counterproductive, and in fact, I think, just wrong on nearly every level.
But I hoped, and I prayed for the Iraqis with my family at dinner every night, during the invasion. I prayed that the US would rebuild Iraq as we did Japan and Germany. Obviously the invasion took a very short period of time.
I had EXPECTED us to swarm Iraq with rebuilding afterwards. When a month went by and most people in Baghdad still did not have utilities, I knew things were heading for the shitter.
THIS was the KEY MISTAKE.
That we did not rebuild Iraq with as much gusto as we destroyed it. Had we spent 50 billion on rebuilding it and let every nation and contractor in, and used 200000 troopsrebuilding it, and had utilities back up to all citizens within weeks THIS WOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED
(m) That was A mistake (a major one), but not the key mistake. The key mistake was running in where others said we had no right. If there is not international support, we do not have themoral authority to do anything.
(m) The reason this supersedes the rebuilding points to cause. We demonstrated our purpose for being there not to help others, but to control our interests. Therefore, we would NEVER build them up. We are there to keep them under thumb.
(m) And that brings me to something else you said.... It is your obligation to not support some action by our government you find wrong. That's why we are a democracy. You can support the troops and not support the war.
Fact of the matter is, we have the right to do whatever is in our national self defense, regardless of what international consensus is. If China invaded California and the UN said we can't fight back, would you still say that we can't fight a war without international support?
"We demonstrated our purpose for being there not to help others, but to control our interests." No nation ever does anything in the genuine altruistic love for other people, Jason. Rose colored glasses, please be removed. Nations always act in their own self interests
(m) And see? You are wrong, but you prefer to see things through your hate smeared glasses. Maybe the truth lies between us, but its not as bad as you choose to believe. We are sending millions in relief to Africa for what in return? Nothing. Things are not black and white. That's just too easy.
The reasons we are in Iraq are plain, and no one should be deceived by the lies of the right or the left. We are in Iraq for oil and for strategic power - The middle east is a lynch pin in exerting military power against Russia and China.
(m) Yes, it is. I agree with you. And that's what I’ve been saying and THAT's why we should not be there. And you never answered me about supporting wars.
(m) As for the waiting for international support if we were invaded, that's infringing on our sovereignty. That's different. We invaded Iraq. Not ours, but their sovereignty.
There is a wrong way and a right way to effect a change in national militiary policy. The right way is to vote the offending politicians out of office.
(m) True, I agree. But you need to voice your thoughts on the war. Its your duty as an American.
The wrong way is for every media type to decry the war and for politicians to announce to the enemy that they've already won
(m) I'm talking about you accepting the war. Each person bears responsibility, myself included. I didn't do all I could have to end this, and I therefore bear responsibility
When Bush's reelection came around, I wanted to vote him out of office for what he did with Iraq, but there is a greater moral issue on my plate than the Iraq war.
(m) And that leads us into another discussion we will not agree on and I don’t have time for. Its 2.30
(m) Thank you for the debate. As always, I feel richer for the experience
Thanks Jason. Also I enjoyed it very much