A conversation, part 2: Hearts and Minds

(m) Are things better of worse there since we invaded?
Are things better or worse for WHO, Jason?
(m) 650k dead Iraqis would say worse. For Iraq. That's where we are talking about
Who comes first here, man? Americans have to care about America first
(m) God would say everyone is equal. If you are Christian, you have to go with that. Period.
God would, but didn't you learn anything about power in your international relations classes?
(m) HA, I pulled religion before the conservative. A great deal. Its from those classes that I learned that we don’t know shite about waging this kind of a war. No one has a good formula for it, except to win the people's hearts and minds. If the bad people have no support, they cannot hide.
That's not possible, Jason. You don't win hearts and minds.
(m) Not for us being seen as invaders, no its not possible. You can win them, we just choose not to
Not for us period, the Islamic world is going to hate us for generations regardless of what happens in Iraq because of the existence of Israel.
(m) And for things we have done since then
Appease the terrorists and all you're going to do is weaken our position and make them more aggressive.
(m) No one is talking about appeasement. You are working with the people, not trying to control them. THAT's what we are not capable of. We are too self important
"Get out of Iraq!" "okay"
(m) We need to get our military out, or at least reduced significantly. That's not for the terrorists. That's for the hearts and minds of the people.
Are you interested in preserving America's position in the world or are you more interested in making terrorists happy? I don't understand? (I’m going to a meeting. Look forward to your response.)
(m) I think that question is more directed back at you. As you continue to send more troops, what will the people think? They will become angrier. America continues to invade us. If you are there to "save" the Iraqis, but are pushing yourself on them, then you are building negative feelings toward us.
(m) That fosters feelings of resentment and hatred. That allows the Iranians (I have not seen evidence for this, but I will use your example) to come in and whisper in their ear about making things better without the Americans.
(m) Then anyone who helps us becomes a target. We continue to slide down and down until we throw up our hands and say, "They don’t want to be helped."
(m) That's just arrogant. How did we feel when Britain sent troops to the colonies to protect us from the French? Its the same thing. What did we do? We started an insurgency that eventually topped the British presence here.
(m) Why do we believe Iraqis are any less than us? Again....arrogance. There is no other explanation for it.
(m) What we need to do is lessen the animosity toward us from the people, by removing the "redcoats from their houses" and then work WITH them. They govern themselves, not with a puppet we will support. We work on the humanitarian aspect and leave the rest alone.
(m) The sad fact is, I think this is too late. We should have pulled out before and allowed the UN to come in and help. Instead, we are worried about our Oil (not the people) and stayed there.
(m) This situation is a result of that. We created this ourselves. That resentment we talked about? The people in the mid-east continue to be reminded why we suck because we keep poking them. If someone came over here and did the same to us, we would have a fit.
(m) Ok, waiting for your return. Enjoy the book.
Okay I'm about half way through, and I have to point out that your understanding of the situation is apparently seriously flawed. Your central point is that the Iraqis hate US. When in fact the hate which is being generated there is against each other
(m) That hate has been there. We have given them a new target. And yes, unless you have negativity toward a group, there cannot be terrorism - by definition they hide among the people
I'll finish reading the rest of what you typed